We had a great three-year run with a freshly-ordained parochial vicar. Saturday morning “unicorn” Novus Ordo with Gregorian chant and stacked with altar boys in cassock and surplice, started monthly family adoration and potluck, started annual Forty Hours Devotion, started a homeschool co-op, started Catholic scouting groups.
Then the vicar’s time was up, and we’ve watched many of these end or falter.
Still trying to maintain the things we don’t need the clergy’s permission for, but not having at least that Saturday morning Mass together as a community, really takes the wind out of our sails.
I think that the SSPX is more effective at managing their priests and parishes than the mainstream church. As a smaller group, they do have it easier because they don't have the massive number of spiritually dead dioceses to deal with. The SSPX puts the energy into places that are thriving.
No, the reason you can't have the Latin Mass in the Conciliar church is because the Latin Mass, as your pope, Francis, and your Cardinal, Roche, admit clearly: the Latin Mass is not compatible with "Vatican 2". V2 introduced new concepts that are not compatible with what the Church taught before (see JPII's Ecclesia Dei, no. 5, where he admits V2 taught new things that are not compatible with Catholic Tradition).
Archbishop Lefebvre saw this quite clearly (as did His Excellency , Bishop Guerard Des Lauriers, who wrote the Ottaviani Intervention criticizing the Novus Ordo as incompatible with Catholic theology), so formed the SSPX tone sure the True Faith, with clearly valid sacraments, could be passed on without fail.
Our parish had a beautiful well attended Saturday noon Mass. As many came as on a Sunday morning Mass. People would stay after for a lay lead rosary. People were getting to know each other. New pastor got rid of that Mass.
I was extremely interested in the priesthood as a high school student. So were a few other boys. Pastor was to interested in steroids and flirting with boys at the gym to talk to any of us.
Female pastoral associate and YM supported a friend in chopping off her breasts to become a guy. The PA isn't even Catholic anymore.
Seminary was 95% very effeminate gay men. I left after 2 weeks.
Parish went with a choir director for nearly 2 years because pastor wanted a guy who was "the best around." Turns out it was his gay friend who quit the job a month later to move to New York with his "husband."
But the best story is this. During a parish council meeting we were having the perennial "what do the youth want" conversation. Visible from the meetings room was the adoration chapel where 13 teens, half boys, did a kneel profound bow, before entering.
I kid you not...the boomer women men thought about calling the police because they thought they were Muslim by the way they bowed and were mostly young boys. You can't make this stuff up.
I’m sensing a theme here. The poison of feminism combined with weak male leaders, white knights who have little to no understanding of how to form young men. It’s no wonder good men flee the Catholic Church or any other Church in which women hold sway.
Effeminacy is at the center of many of these issues in the Church. Men don't stick around to be pecked by Synodal Susans, they leave and join the Orthos or vitalists
There is more to the theme presented. Good men, both lay and clerical, who take action are consistently run over and neutralized, and there's nothing in their power to prevent that. Good men are there, maybe not in as much abundance as we may like, but they are there, in contradiction to the cries of Where are the men?
Good men should continue to fight the good fight and not be discouraged. God is the One who gives the increase, according to His time and His measure. What we can do to help them in the meantime is not to pretend all men, or even men in general, are MIA. If the railroading they experience regularly is disheartening, speaking of their sex in this way compounds the problem.
I am one of the men who "stayed." I wouldn't apply the term "good" to myself but hearing that "men have left" doesn't actually discourage me. It validates me. That I'm not crazy for seeing what is plainly visible. It's only stubbornness and spite that have caused me to stay. I'll not claim virtue is what kept me in the pews. Spiritually, I admire the courage of those who left. Even if leaving was the worst choice they could make. They saw nothing in what the women or homosexuals had to say to them. And they acted. Short sighted ly, yes. But Ive always thought them better than me, in that narrow regard. Selfishly, seeing them leave, reminds me of the need for courage and conviction.
We started celebrating a feast day a month with Catholics neighbors invited. Simple dessert served in their honor, short reading/ prayer, then beer and cards.
You're correct. This has to start in homes. Susan from parish council would need to mandate training, organize a leadership retreat, write SMART goals, hire a speaker and then shut it down for being to devotional or exclusive to disabled transsexual dolphins or something.
Yes. This is all so true. I have to say it helps me sympathize with our pastor who has not fired some people who obviously should be fired (Methodist music director who can’t sing in key and has terrible taste in hymns.)
After years of hesitation, he did finally fire the 80 year old baptism class teacher who used the class as his personal soap box to talk about how horrible everything was before Vatican II. The instructor taught that the God of the Old Testament was not a God of love and compared the Old and New Testaments to the pre and post Vatican II church. After we alerted our pastor, who is pretty traditional, to the problem, he took about a year of “discernment” and then asked my husband and I and another couple to teach the class. The secretary was very upset about the older guy leaving and tried to sabotage us in various ways, but that is a very long story.
I also helped run a very successful mom’s group at our church, and we were run off by people who worked for the parish. (We still meet on our own.) I’m starting a CGS atrium in my attic next year and not even thinking about going through the parish.
This really resonated with me. I’ve been the music director of a small Midwestern parish not unlike the ones you described in the opening paragraphs for a number of years, and it’s hard not to get the sense that my parish is comfortable with its current state of consistent mediocrity. Father refuses to switch the missal from _Breaking Bread_ to almost anything else, even though half its songs are either theologically heterodox or unsuited for congregational singing. Our altar servers are the same two geriatric men in cassocks at Mass after Mass. Our lectors are half-trained and underprepared. As for my ministry, my choir members don’t practice, don’t listen, and struggle with the concept of weekly rehearsal. Recruitment drives are always a bust, and I’m lucky if I can throw together a simple three-part harmonized choral piece for Christmas and Easter. I don’t need the TLM or altar rails to be happy at my parish, but is it too much to ask for a level of effort that matches the sanctity of the Mass?
A very valid criticism of music is exactly what you mentioned. Simple melodic tones (chant) are accessible to everyone. I don't sing. Ever. Specially because I'm really bad at reading music designed for professional singers or aging hippies.
"Indeed, that is the only way laypeople will build: outside the parish structure, outside diocesan control."
There's a lot of truth to that.
I've got a couple horror stories from a slightly different perspective though, both ones I've seen firsthand:
1.) The college chaplain and the lay minister who worked for him at my Catholic university both put a lot of work into inviting good, orthodox speakers (think Peter Kreeft and Scott Hahn). They also hosted study groups on the Catechism of the Catholic Church and on the writings of CS. Lewis, and put out a ton of materials on campus trying to convince people to join. They told us frequently that we had to be on our guard with the administration and the liberal Catholic professors (of which there were a couple) and that it was more or less us against the world.
I ended up getting sexually assaulted by the chaplain, a friend of mine ended up in an adulterous relationship with the lay minister. What ultimately killed the ministry wasn't outside pressure, it was the corruption of the two leaders. Many of the college kids who were involved in that ministry have left the Church.
2.) The local priest who did the TLM mass in our diocese knew the bishop was at some point going to shut it down. He was pastoring a parish that had a vibrant homeschool community, various programs for families, a HUGE altar serving program, schola music, the works. He talked openly about the bishop wanting to restrict the TLM in the diocese in accord with Pope Francis's decree, and promised the people in his parish he'd stick around and do the Novus Ordo in Latin.
Then, suddenly, at the Easter mass, he announced he'd be leaving. He ended up seeking laicization and running away with a female friend of mine to another city.
That parish community, after all the turmoil, still exists and has a ton of faithful Catholic families (though many left)-- I think in large part because the bishop sent them a new priest more on the traditional side of the spectrum, and a lot of the ministries were lay run and led.
So...Yes, sometimes cattiness and possiveness and political nastiness kill things in a parish. Sometimes, it's something else. My experiences (which also include being massively undercut as a youth minister, and getting burnt out on trying to start ministries in parishes) have led me to not want to put all my eggs in one basket, so far as that goes. I really love my current parish-- it's got a good RE program, easy access to the Sacraments and adoration, and cattiness/ legal liability isn't the rule of the day-- but I try to keep in mind that it could all go away relatively quickly.
As the cherry on top, my husband is currently in deaconate formation, so we're likely about to enter the trenches with this. Prayers appreciated.
Pray for priests and those in ministry, they're dealing with attacks on multiple levels.
It's been interesting watching this all unfold, mainly on Twitter where this fellow was thoroughly raked over the coals for it (and admittedly for his less than intelligent responses to critiques). I was raised in North America and came to the Faith, or returned to it, as an adult. I spent most of my life in large Canadian cities, and only experienced anything like the parish life you're describing once, for my five years at the Toronto Oratory, which is certainly not anything like an ordinary suburban or rural parish.
Then I lived in rural England briefly where if you didn't have a car, it was simply not possible to attend Mass on Sunday except on those few occasions when you could beg a lift to town (no buses to the sticks on Sundays). So you could attend a sort of prayer meeting organised by a small group of the most annoying, entitled, brutally, hysterically anti-Catholic Boomer Caths you could ever imagine in your darkest dreams, or you could just keep your Sunday obligation as best you could by yourself.
England is a protestant nation, through and through, but not diverse or tolerant as is the US (and Canada). In England you learn what it is like to live in an actively anti-Catholic nation, a nation that systematically, programmatically hates you for what you believe. And you learn how much that loathing has sunk into the mindset of the few Catholics - the Church in Britain is plagued by a strange and deeply unhealthy condition of Stockholm Syndrome and self-loathing that was... let's just say... not improved by the insertion of VaticanTwoism.
I've lived in this little town, Narni, in central Italy for four years or so now, and the experience of just being accepted as a Catholic, as if it is simply a normal thing to be, is something I've never come across anywhere. It's not that anyone here is especially devout (I'm speaking now of the NovusOrdoist Italian Catholics who are native to the town, not the SSPX people who have moved here to be near the convent) it's just that it's normal. It's the background reality that everyone takes for granted. If you tell a Narnese that you wanted to be a nun when you were younger, they'll smile and say, Oh me too. No one will look at you as if yo'd grown a second head.
The parish here - gravely reduced as it is - is deeply embedded in the life of the town. Which I suppose is to be expected in a parish founded in the 4th century. I don't know what will happen in the next 40 years when the elderly parishioners who are the bedrock of the parish are gone. I only hope that in that time the SSPX people will have made some progress in repopulating the town, that is suffering from the same demographic problems as the rest of Italy.
But we at least know that the Faith is quite literally saturated into the stones here. Our first bishop, Giovenale (Juvenal) was praised by Pope Gregory the Great in his Dialogues. He was buried in a little crypt that had been dug out of the huge volkswagon-sized blocks of stone that made up the city's old Roman wall, along the Via Flaminia. Eventually the town's first Christian chapel was built there, and then in the 11th century the current basilica was built over top of that.
All of which is only to say that as I read that little kerfuffle surrounding that rather silly article by that not-very-smart or well-travelled guy, it made me realise just how much of a bubble-world nearly all modern North American Catholics live, and how little of the things they think are important, and that I used to think terribly important, have any kind of impact outside that bubble. The whole question of whether you should go to your nearest parish and "save" it or "fix" it just seems so far removed, a niche interest of a niche interest. THere's only one parish in Narni, as there is in nearly all smaller towns in Italy. No one here has any idea if there is going to be a parish here in another generation. The faith that was founded in Narni by a travelling Syrian monk in the 4th century is about to be extinguished, and hardly anyone will notice.
Sorry, Hilary, but though some of your response hits home, some of it comes across as kind of smug.
Especially this: “All of which is only to say that as I read that little kerfuffle surrounding that rather silly article by that not-very-smart or well-travelled guy, it made me realise just how much of a bubble-world nearly all modern North American Catholics live, and how little of the things they think are important, and that I used to think terribly important, have any kind of impact outside that bubble. The whole question of whether you should go to your nearest parish and "save" it or "fix" it just seems so far removed, a niche interest of a niche interest.”
I doubt you meant it to be condescending to the widely held concerns of either of the two authors involved. It’s not your style.
But the day the salvation of one’s soul, or that of one’s loved ones, or those of one’s neighbors in the face of the utter demolition we are living through is merely “a niche interest of a niche interest” is the day we may as well all just give up. And that ain’t gonna happen.
"In England you learn what it is like to live in an actively anti-Catholic nation, a nation that systematically, programmatically hates you for what you believe."
That's hardly unique to Catholics. The entire UK government is hostile to Christianity. It has, for 200+ years, been dominated by a Jewish merchant elite that has used every trick in the book to subvert the Christian character of the country. This includes fomenting wars, sponsoring mass immigration of Muslims, removing Christian symbols from public places, etc.
The UK had an Archbishop of Canterbury who magically discovered his Jewish heritage late in life, and now it has a woman in the role. The King (supposedly the defender of the faith) is more friendly to Islam and the police actively enforce anti-blasphemy laws for other religions.
What complete balderdash. Jews make up less than one-half of one percent of the UK population. Are they so vastly superior in intelligence, in energy and organization, in culture, that they can twist the rest of the UK around their little finger? Anti-Jewish sentiment is such a cancer on Catholicism. The only good aspect of it may be that it exposes the frauds amongst us. And if you're wondering, there are at least 12 Muslims to every Jew in the UK. Good luck with that.
Brilliant synthesis of the incentive misalignment. The testmonies about quantifiable success followed by institutional pushback map perfectly to my own experience running RCIA programs in 3 different dioceses. The point about pastors being middle managers optimizing for zero complaints rather than growth is somethin I hadnt articulated before but explains so much. When the system rewards decline avoidance over revival, any renewal attempt becomes disruptive by definition.
It's not even decline avoidance but decline management. Deline is fine as long as it's slow, but if you rock the boat trying to reverse it, punishment awaits.
Read Lumen Gentium and Gaudium et Spes. The Conciliar church's concepts of the episcopacy and priesthood are totally different than the Catholic Church's. The Catholic Church has always taught that the primary role of the priest is offering sacrifice: the Holy Mass, the Divine Office, his celibacy and service to the Church and the parish, etc. The episcopacy is the fullness of the priesthood. A bishop offers sacrifice as well, it's his primary responsibility, but he takes over the added responsibility of guiding the flock to salvation and away from harm. He puts himself in harm's way rather than the faithful. Yes, there are many bishops prior to V2 who failed in their responsibility, but it was quite clear they failed.
The Conciliar church, as written in its documents, is about management, administration, and, well, worldliness. Gaudium et Spes discusses creating a better world, but doesn't mention Baptism, or submission of the world to Christ's Kingship (same with JPII'S "Catechism of the Catholic Church", where the section on the Social Doctrine only gives lip-service to Christ, and service to Christ, at the very end). Priests are social workers and bishops are managers of an NGO. What you discuss is priests and bishops doing EXACTLY what is expected of them. It would be a ln offense against V2 for a priest to live his life as a sacrifice, or a bishop to stand up for truth over the feelings of the people (whether his flock or not).
Yes, I distinguish between the Catholic Church and the Conciliar church, because Paul VI did so, calling his new church the "Conciliar church", and his "new Mass" a "new Mass for a new church".
You are spot on in this regard. The impact of feminism and a lack of respect for the Priest and the Priesthood create a situation where the Father is unable to lead souls to Heaven and there is so much chaos and conflict within the parishes because of this incredible lack of respect and obedience for the Priesthood. In many parishes, overbearing women are literally running the parish. It’s heartbreaking. The Priest is almost powerless as no one has his back. The SSPX and the ICKSP have parishioners who love and respect their Priests. This is so evident in their parishes!! It changes everything!!
When my auxiliary Bishop blamed the catastrophic collapse of Church attendance on people complaining about the hierarchy on social media, then expounded how wonderful it was that Muslim kids were attending a local Catholic school, I realized the Archdiocese was beyond saving by mere man.
We are attending a Church with a solid pastor and some long-standing parishioners who are avid about growing the parish. We've so far dodged some characters that don't like what we're doing. So far, so good. Praying it continues.
A kind of theological collapse occurs, but the buildings zombie on for a while, then it all closes. It's almost as if God is trying to tell us something.
The title is very true, I went to a parish picnic where the church had a NO and a TLM. I sit down next to an older gentleman and get to talking. I tell him how I converted and go to this parish for the TLM. He gets defensive, "how do you understand what's going on etc..." I'm not judging him, (it's hard to go to a diocesan mass and judge the NO), but he's very suspicious of me. The conversation fizzles out. I can't imagine trying to change anything if the priests were slightly less traditional.
The process of application to and formation for the clerical state is one of smoothing off any sharp edges. This results in clerics like Cardinal Dolan: happy-clappy plus some super-sappy. There is simply a lack of fortitude among our clergy. As you noted, the Ordinary posts the "difficult" priests to the most remote parishes. Promotion up the clerical ladder is due to fundraising and administrative prowess rather than orthodoxy and piety. The fierce fighter for Christ simply will not make the first cut of candidates for a promotion to a bigger parish or an episcopal seat. If not active or closeted homosexuals themselves, the successful career priest will never make a stink about that kind of activity among his brothers. And almost no pastor is willing to stand in the heat of the parish kitchen when the middle-aged Karens get their steam up. Again, a simple lack of courage. We should pray specifically for courage for our priests and bishops. Most know the right thing. Only a few will fight for the right thing.
I just remembered a great quote from Leon Podles, I think it’s from his book, Losing the Good Portion. The Catholic Church is a women’s club with a few male officers. He’s not wrong.
Do you work in Catholic ministry? And by the way kind sir:
The Catechism (CCC 2148) defines blasphemy as:
“Blasphemy is speaking against God — inwardly or outwardly — words of hatred, reproach, or defiance; speaking ill of God; failing in respect toward Him in speech…”
So for something to be properly blasphemous, it has to:
• Directly attack God or divine things,
• Or mock or show contempt for what is essentially sacred (God, Christ, the Trinity, the sacraments in themselves).
The Church often operates like a failing franchise run by vindictive narcissists who'd cut off their nose to spite their face. The old boomers and pansy priests like their little fiefdoms. It's not about Christ, the sacraments, the Gospel or salvation for them, it's like a demented hobby where they delight in watching others to achieve success only to shut it down out of petty envy. Most parishes are led by catty cliques of a handful of people who just want their power trips and thrive on gossiping about anyone trying to make an actual difference.
That's a temporary phase. The wretched boomers are (thank goodness) shuffling off to the grave. The paltry few children and grandchildren that they managed to produce are too busy trying to survive than trying to rebuild the churches. However, the Zoomers and GenAlpha will return to Christianity with a vengeance. Emphasis on vengeance. I think boomers are completely unaware of the Zoomer and GenAlpha mindset.
It also reflects the society that the church is in, the good, the bad, and the ugly. The sin part comes from the human element and culture, not from God.
Many of those longtime volunteers feel they are overworked and under appreciated. They honestly think the church would fall apart without their service. (Matt 16:18).
In 2020, I led various parish ministries and things were going great (round the clock attendance for sidewalk counseling outside abortion clinics; vibrant young adult’s group, etc.). When I suggested the church was not the place for the laity to form a critical race theory reading group, rather than lend his authority to the right decision, the pastor chided me for insensitivity and backed a small cabal of resentful gay race communists. Those ministries I ran are dead now.
Thankfully, I discovered the FSSP around the same time and have been traveling to the best parish in reach ever since. Plus, (without revealing too much) am working to bring about Christendom in every way I can. Great advice in this article; all devout Catholics should listen up!
I'm enjoying that this "discourse" is going around. My Wife and I are only just dipping our toes into Parish "revival" so it is good to hear all the different ideas. Though I could imagine things ending like the people in your post. Right now it seems like the majority of the lay people in my Parish network are very "beige" as Bishop Barron talks about. They demand SCAPs rather than a change of Mass times, despite us only have 2 Priests to fill like 10 Mass times on a Sunday. But recently, there have been a lot of clerical changes locally, with a new Bishop, and the merging of a bunch of Parishes together. Maybe that shakes out positively, or maybe it'll erase our efforts. Thank you for posting the testimonies of those people, God Bless!
This misses the frame being discussed here. I admire your hope. But it seems like the suggestion is to view the building of Church as a needed sacramental center, but that restoration will only happen, unannounced, on group chats, and in people's actual living rooms. Parish centers are a dead letter. I'm inclined to agree
We had a great three-year run with a freshly-ordained parochial vicar. Saturday morning “unicorn” Novus Ordo with Gregorian chant and stacked with altar boys in cassock and surplice, started monthly family adoration and potluck, started annual Forty Hours Devotion, started a homeschool co-op, started Catholic scouting groups.
Then the vicar’s time was up, and we’ve watched many of these end or falter.
Still trying to maintain the things we don’t need the clergy’s permission for, but not having at least that Saturday morning Mass together as a community, really takes the wind out of our sails.
I think that the SSPX is more effective at managing their priests and parishes than the mainstream church. As a smaller group, they do have it easier because they don't have the massive number of spiritually dead dioceses to deal with. The SSPX puts the energy into places that are thriving.
Thank God for Archbishop Lefebvre!
The SSPX is why we can’t have Latin mass in the Catholic Church. The SSPX tells people that it’s a mortal sin to attend Catholic mass.
No, the reason you can't have the Latin Mass in the Conciliar church is because the Latin Mass, as your pope, Francis, and your Cardinal, Roche, admit clearly: the Latin Mass is not compatible with "Vatican 2". V2 introduced new concepts that are not compatible with what the Church taught before (see JPII's Ecclesia Dei, no. 5, where he admits V2 taught new things that are not compatible with Catholic Tradition).
Archbishop Lefebvre saw this quite clearly (as did His Excellency , Bishop Guerard Des Lauriers, who wrote the Ottaviani Intervention criticizing the Novus Ordo as incompatible with Catholic theology), so formed the SSPX tone sure the True Faith, with clearly valid sacraments, could be passed on without fail.
That's not true. SSPX allows people to follow their conscience and attend the Novus Ordo.
You're full of it! It has always said the novus ordo is valid. The rite is defective.
I suspect that the only reason the Priestly Society of St Peter is permitted a Church in Hamburg Germany is because the SSPX has a chapel near there.
Our parish had a beautiful well attended Saturday noon Mass. As many came as on a Sunday morning Mass. People would stay after for a lay lead rosary. People were getting to know each other. New pastor got rid of that Mass.
Older millennial here:
I was extremely interested in the priesthood as a high school student. So were a few other boys. Pastor was to interested in steroids and flirting with boys at the gym to talk to any of us.
Female pastoral associate and YM supported a friend in chopping off her breasts to become a guy. The PA isn't even Catholic anymore.
Seminary was 95% very effeminate gay men. I left after 2 weeks.
Parish went with a choir director for nearly 2 years because pastor wanted a guy who was "the best around." Turns out it was his gay friend who quit the job a month later to move to New York with his "husband."
But the best story is this. During a parish council meeting we were having the perennial "what do the youth want" conversation. Visible from the meetings room was the adoration chapel where 13 teens, half boys, did a kneel profound bow, before entering.
I kid you not...the boomer women men thought about calling the police because they thought they were Muslim by the way they bowed and were mostly young boys. You can't make this stuff up.
I’m sensing a theme here. The poison of feminism combined with weak male leaders, white knights who have little to no understanding of how to form young men. It’s no wonder good men flee the Catholic Church or any other Church in which women hold sway.
Effeminacy is at the center of many of these issues in the Church. Men don't stick around to be pecked by Synodal Susans, they leave and join the Orthos or vitalists
Exactamente
Or they attend mass and read books like “Why men don’t attend Church”, work in divorce ministry or mentor young men.
Even if the male leader is strong or the female teacher is a devoted Catholic, the enemy works overtime to rid those who are saving souls.
There is more to the theme presented. Good men, both lay and clerical, who take action are consistently run over and neutralized, and there's nothing in their power to prevent that. Good men are there, maybe not in as much abundance as we may like, but they are there, in contradiction to the cries of Where are the men?
Good men should continue to fight the good fight and not be discouraged. God is the One who gives the increase, according to His time and His measure. What we can do to help them in the meantime is not to pretend all men, or even men in general, are MIA. If the railroading they experience regularly is disheartening, speaking of their sex in this way compounds the problem.
I am one of the men who "stayed." I wouldn't apply the term "good" to myself but hearing that "men have left" doesn't actually discourage me. It validates me. That I'm not crazy for seeing what is plainly visible. It's only stubbornness and spite that have caused me to stay. I'll not claim virtue is what kept me in the pews. Spiritually, I admire the courage of those who left. Even if leaving was the worst choice they could make. They saw nothing in what the women or homosexuals had to say to them. And they acted. Short sighted ly, yes. But Ive always thought them better than me, in that narrow regard. Selfishly, seeing them leave, reminds me of the need for courage and conviction.
We started celebrating a feast day a month with Catholics neighbors invited. Simple dessert served in their honor, short reading/ prayer, then beer and cards.
You're correct. This has to start in homes. Susan from parish council would need to mandate training, organize a leadership retreat, write SMART goals, hire a speaker and then shut it down for being to devotional or exclusive to disabled transsexual dolphins or something.
What a great idea! I think I’ll try to steal this
Love this, Erik!
Yes. This is all so true. I have to say it helps me sympathize with our pastor who has not fired some people who obviously should be fired (Methodist music director who can’t sing in key and has terrible taste in hymns.)
After years of hesitation, he did finally fire the 80 year old baptism class teacher who used the class as his personal soap box to talk about how horrible everything was before Vatican II. The instructor taught that the God of the Old Testament was not a God of love and compared the Old and New Testaments to the pre and post Vatican II church. After we alerted our pastor, who is pretty traditional, to the problem, he took about a year of “discernment” and then asked my husband and I and another couple to teach the class. The secretary was very upset about the older guy leaving and tried to sabotage us in various ways, but that is a very long story.
I also helped run a very successful mom’s group at our church, and we were run off by people who worked for the parish. (We still meet on our own.) I’m starting a CGS atrium in my attic next year and not even thinking about going through the parish.
Church politics is super toxic. I have the awful sense that the Devil takes a lot of pleasure in all of this.
And is actively encouraging it. I have no doubt.
This really resonated with me. I’ve been the music director of a small Midwestern parish not unlike the ones you described in the opening paragraphs for a number of years, and it’s hard not to get the sense that my parish is comfortable with its current state of consistent mediocrity. Father refuses to switch the missal from _Breaking Bread_ to almost anything else, even though half its songs are either theologically heterodox or unsuited for congregational singing. Our altar servers are the same two geriatric men in cassocks at Mass after Mass. Our lectors are half-trained and underprepared. As for my ministry, my choir members don’t practice, don’t listen, and struggle with the concept of weekly rehearsal. Recruitment drives are always a bust, and I’m lucky if I can throw together a simple three-part harmonized choral piece for Christmas and Easter. I don’t need the TLM or altar rails to be happy at my parish, but is it too much to ask for a level of effort that matches the sanctity of the Mass?
A very valid criticism of music is exactly what you mentioned. Simple melodic tones (chant) are accessible to everyone. I don't sing. Ever. Specially because I'm really bad at reading music designed for professional singers or aging hippies.
"Indeed, that is the only way laypeople will build: outside the parish structure, outside diocesan control."
There's a lot of truth to that.
I've got a couple horror stories from a slightly different perspective though, both ones I've seen firsthand:
1.) The college chaplain and the lay minister who worked for him at my Catholic university both put a lot of work into inviting good, orthodox speakers (think Peter Kreeft and Scott Hahn). They also hosted study groups on the Catechism of the Catholic Church and on the writings of CS. Lewis, and put out a ton of materials on campus trying to convince people to join. They told us frequently that we had to be on our guard with the administration and the liberal Catholic professors (of which there were a couple) and that it was more or less us against the world.
I ended up getting sexually assaulted by the chaplain, a friend of mine ended up in an adulterous relationship with the lay minister. What ultimately killed the ministry wasn't outside pressure, it was the corruption of the two leaders. Many of the college kids who were involved in that ministry have left the Church.
2.) The local priest who did the TLM mass in our diocese knew the bishop was at some point going to shut it down. He was pastoring a parish that had a vibrant homeschool community, various programs for families, a HUGE altar serving program, schola music, the works. He talked openly about the bishop wanting to restrict the TLM in the diocese in accord with Pope Francis's decree, and promised the people in his parish he'd stick around and do the Novus Ordo in Latin.
Then, suddenly, at the Easter mass, he announced he'd be leaving. He ended up seeking laicization and running away with a female friend of mine to another city.
That parish community, after all the turmoil, still exists and has a ton of faithful Catholic families (though many left)-- I think in large part because the bishop sent them a new priest more on the traditional side of the spectrum, and a lot of the ministries were lay run and led.
So...Yes, sometimes cattiness and possiveness and political nastiness kill things in a parish. Sometimes, it's something else. My experiences (which also include being massively undercut as a youth minister, and getting burnt out on trying to start ministries in parishes) have led me to not want to put all my eggs in one basket, so far as that goes. I really love my current parish-- it's got a good RE program, easy access to the Sacraments and adoration, and cattiness/ legal liability isn't the rule of the day-- but I try to keep in mind that it could all go away relatively quickly.
As the cherry on top, my husband is currently in deaconate formation, so we're likely about to enter the trenches with this. Prayers appreciated.
Pray for priests and those in ministry, they're dealing with attacks on multiple levels.
I'm so sorry for what you endured. We've had some scandalous pastors at nearby parishes and it shook up the faith of quite a lot of people.
It's been interesting watching this all unfold, mainly on Twitter where this fellow was thoroughly raked over the coals for it (and admittedly for his less than intelligent responses to critiques). I was raised in North America and came to the Faith, or returned to it, as an adult. I spent most of my life in large Canadian cities, and only experienced anything like the parish life you're describing once, for my five years at the Toronto Oratory, which is certainly not anything like an ordinary suburban or rural parish.
Then I lived in rural England briefly where if you didn't have a car, it was simply not possible to attend Mass on Sunday except on those few occasions when you could beg a lift to town (no buses to the sticks on Sundays). So you could attend a sort of prayer meeting organised by a small group of the most annoying, entitled, brutally, hysterically anti-Catholic Boomer Caths you could ever imagine in your darkest dreams, or you could just keep your Sunday obligation as best you could by yourself.
England is a protestant nation, through and through, but not diverse or tolerant as is the US (and Canada). In England you learn what it is like to live in an actively anti-Catholic nation, a nation that systematically, programmatically hates you for what you believe. And you learn how much that loathing has sunk into the mindset of the few Catholics - the Church in Britain is plagued by a strange and deeply unhealthy condition of Stockholm Syndrome and self-loathing that was... let's just say... not improved by the insertion of VaticanTwoism.
I've lived in this little town, Narni, in central Italy for four years or so now, and the experience of just being accepted as a Catholic, as if it is simply a normal thing to be, is something I've never come across anywhere. It's not that anyone here is especially devout (I'm speaking now of the NovusOrdoist Italian Catholics who are native to the town, not the SSPX people who have moved here to be near the convent) it's just that it's normal. It's the background reality that everyone takes for granted. If you tell a Narnese that you wanted to be a nun when you were younger, they'll smile and say, Oh me too. No one will look at you as if yo'd grown a second head.
The parish here - gravely reduced as it is - is deeply embedded in the life of the town. Which I suppose is to be expected in a parish founded in the 4th century. I don't know what will happen in the next 40 years when the elderly parishioners who are the bedrock of the parish are gone. I only hope that in that time the SSPX people will have made some progress in repopulating the town, that is suffering from the same demographic problems as the rest of Italy.
But we at least know that the Faith is quite literally saturated into the stones here. Our first bishop, Giovenale (Juvenal) was praised by Pope Gregory the Great in his Dialogues. He was buried in a little crypt that had been dug out of the huge volkswagon-sized blocks of stone that made up the city's old Roman wall, along the Via Flaminia. Eventually the town's first Christian chapel was built there, and then in the 11th century the current basilica was built over top of that.
All of which is only to say that as I read that little kerfuffle surrounding that rather silly article by that not-very-smart or well-travelled guy, it made me realise just how much of a bubble-world nearly all modern North American Catholics live, and how little of the things they think are important, and that I used to think terribly important, have any kind of impact outside that bubble. The whole question of whether you should go to your nearest parish and "save" it or "fix" it just seems so far removed, a niche interest of a niche interest. THere's only one parish in Narni, as there is in nearly all smaller towns in Italy. No one here has any idea if there is going to be a parish here in another generation. The faith that was founded in Narni by a travelling Syrian monk in the 4th century is about to be extinguished, and hardly anyone will notice.
Sorry, Hilary, but though some of your response hits home, some of it comes across as kind of smug.
Especially this: “All of which is only to say that as I read that little kerfuffle surrounding that rather silly article by that not-very-smart or well-travelled guy, it made me realise just how much of a bubble-world nearly all modern North American Catholics live, and how little of the things they think are important, and that I used to think terribly important, have any kind of impact outside that bubble. The whole question of whether you should go to your nearest parish and "save" it or "fix" it just seems so far removed, a niche interest of a niche interest.”
I doubt you meant it to be condescending to the widely held concerns of either of the two authors involved. It’s not your style.
But the day the salvation of one’s soul, or that of one’s loved ones, or those of one’s neighbors in the face of the utter demolition we are living through is merely “a niche interest of a niche interest” is the day we may as well all just give up. And that ain’t gonna happen.
God bless. Love your art.
"In England you learn what it is like to live in an actively anti-Catholic nation, a nation that systematically, programmatically hates you for what you believe."
That's hardly unique to Catholics. The entire UK government is hostile to Christianity. It has, for 200+ years, been dominated by a Jewish merchant elite that has used every trick in the book to subvert the Christian character of the country. This includes fomenting wars, sponsoring mass immigration of Muslims, removing Christian symbols from public places, etc.
The UK had an Archbishop of Canterbury who magically discovered his Jewish heritage late in life, and now it has a woman in the role. The King (supposedly the defender of the faith) is more friendly to Islam and the police actively enforce anti-blasphemy laws for other religions.
What complete balderdash. Jews make up less than one-half of one percent of the UK population. Are they so vastly superior in intelligence, in energy and organization, in culture, that they can twist the rest of the UK around their little finger? Anti-Jewish sentiment is such a cancer on Catholicism. The only good aspect of it may be that it exposes the frauds amongst us. And if you're wondering, there are at least 12 Muslims to every Jew in the UK. Good luck with that.
Wondered if I'd find you here, and rather pleased that I have. Good comment.
Brilliant synthesis of the incentive misalignment. The testmonies about quantifiable success followed by institutional pushback map perfectly to my own experience running RCIA programs in 3 different dioceses. The point about pastors being middle managers optimizing for zero complaints rather than growth is somethin I hadnt articulated before but explains so much. When the system rewards decline avoidance over revival, any renewal attempt becomes disruptive by definition.
It's not even decline avoidance but decline management. Deline is fine as long as it's slow, but if you rock the boat trying to reverse it, punishment awaits.
Read Lumen Gentium and Gaudium et Spes. The Conciliar church's concepts of the episcopacy and priesthood are totally different than the Catholic Church's. The Catholic Church has always taught that the primary role of the priest is offering sacrifice: the Holy Mass, the Divine Office, his celibacy and service to the Church and the parish, etc. The episcopacy is the fullness of the priesthood. A bishop offers sacrifice as well, it's his primary responsibility, but he takes over the added responsibility of guiding the flock to salvation and away from harm. He puts himself in harm's way rather than the faithful. Yes, there are many bishops prior to V2 who failed in their responsibility, but it was quite clear they failed.
The Conciliar church, as written in its documents, is about management, administration, and, well, worldliness. Gaudium et Spes discusses creating a better world, but doesn't mention Baptism, or submission of the world to Christ's Kingship (same with JPII'S "Catechism of the Catholic Church", where the section on the Social Doctrine only gives lip-service to Christ, and service to Christ, at the very end). Priests are social workers and bishops are managers of an NGO. What you discuss is priests and bishops doing EXACTLY what is expected of them. It would be a ln offense against V2 for a priest to live his life as a sacrifice, or a bishop to stand up for truth over the feelings of the people (whether his flock or not).
Yes, I distinguish between the Catholic Church and the Conciliar church, because Paul VI did so, calling his new church the "Conciliar church", and his "new Mass" a "new Mass for a new church".
Authority is inverted in society, which often leads to some sort of ruin.
You are spot on in this regard. The impact of feminism and a lack of respect for the Priest and the Priesthood create a situation where the Father is unable to lead souls to Heaven and there is so much chaos and conflict within the parishes because of this incredible lack of respect and obedience for the Priesthood. In many parishes, overbearing women are literally running the parish. It’s heartbreaking. The Priest is almost powerless as no one has his back. The SSPX and the ICKSP have parishioners who love and respect their Priests. This is so evident in their parishes!! It changes everything!!
This is entrenched in the current generation.
When my auxiliary Bishop blamed the catastrophic collapse of Church attendance on people complaining about the hierarchy on social media, then expounded how wonderful it was that Muslim kids were attending a local Catholic school, I realized the Archdiocese was beyond saving by mere man.
We are attending a Church with a solid pastor and some long-standing parishioners who are avid about growing the parish. We've so far dodged some characters that don't like what we're doing. So far, so good. Praying it continues.
A kind of theological collapse occurs, but the buildings zombie on for a while, then it all closes. It's almost as if God is trying to tell us something.
The title is very true, I went to a parish picnic where the church had a NO and a TLM. I sit down next to an older gentleman and get to talking. I tell him how I converted and go to this parish for the TLM. He gets defensive, "how do you understand what's going on etc..." I'm not judging him, (it's hard to go to a diocesan mass and judge the NO), but he's very suspicious of me. The conversation fizzles out. I can't imagine trying to change anything if the priests were slightly less traditional.
The process of application to and formation for the clerical state is one of smoothing off any sharp edges. This results in clerics like Cardinal Dolan: happy-clappy plus some super-sappy. There is simply a lack of fortitude among our clergy. As you noted, the Ordinary posts the "difficult" priests to the most remote parishes. Promotion up the clerical ladder is due to fundraising and administrative prowess rather than orthodoxy and piety. The fierce fighter for Christ simply will not make the first cut of candidates for a promotion to a bigger parish or an episcopal seat. If not active or closeted homosexuals themselves, the successful career priest will never make a stink about that kind of activity among his brothers. And almost no pastor is willing to stand in the heat of the parish kitchen when the middle-aged Karens get their steam up. Again, a simple lack of courage. We should pray specifically for courage for our priests and bishops. Most know the right thing. Only a few will fight for the right thing.
I just remembered a great quote from Leon Podles, I think it’s from his book, Losing the Good Portion. The Catholic Church is a women’s club with a few male officers. He’s not wrong.
Do you work in Catholic ministry? And by the way kind sir:
The Catechism (CCC 2148) defines blasphemy as:
“Blasphemy is speaking against God — inwardly or outwardly — words of hatred, reproach, or defiance; speaking ill of God; failing in respect toward Him in speech…”
So for something to be properly blasphemous, it has to:
• Directly attack God or divine things,
• Or mock or show contempt for what is essentially sacred (God, Christ, the Trinity, the sacraments in themselves).
The Church often operates like a failing franchise run by vindictive narcissists who'd cut off their nose to spite their face. The old boomers and pansy priests like their little fiefdoms. It's not about Christ, the sacraments, the Gospel or salvation for them, it's like a demented hobby where they delight in watching others to achieve success only to shut it down out of petty envy. Most parishes are led by catty cliques of a handful of people who just want their power trips and thrive on gossiping about anyone trying to make an actual difference.
That's a temporary phase. The wretched boomers are (thank goodness) shuffling off to the grave. The paltry few children and grandchildren that they managed to produce are too busy trying to survive than trying to rebuild the churches. However, the Zoomers and GenAlpha will return to Christianity with a vengeance. Emphasis on vengeance. I think boomers are completely unaware of the Zoomer and GenAlpha mindset.
I think you are, as well.
It also reflects the society that the church is in, the good, the bad, and the ugly. The sin part comes from the human element and culture, not from God.
Many of those longtime volunteers feel they are overworked and under appreciated. They honestly think the church would fall apart without their service. (Matt 16:18).
In 2020, I led various parish ministries and things were going great (round the clock attendance for sidewalk counseling outside abortion clinics; vibrant young adult’s group, etc.). When I suggested the church was not the place for the laity to form a critical race theory reading group, rather than lend his authority to the right decision, the pastor chided me for insensitivity and backed a small cabal of resentful gay race communists. Those ministries I ran are dead now.
Thankfully, I discovered the FSSP around the same time and have been traveling to the best parish in reach ever since. Plus, (without revealing too much) am working to bring about Christendom in every way I can. Great advice in this article; all devout Catholics should listen up!
I'm enjoying that this "discourse" is going around. My Wife and I are only just dipping our toes into Parish "revival" so it is good to hear all the different ideas. Though I could imagine things ending like the people in your post. Right now it seems like the majority of the lay people in my Parish network are very "beige" as Bishop Barron talks about. They demand SCAPs rather than a change of Mass times, despite us only have 2 Priests to fill like 10 Mass times on a Sunday. But recently, there have been a lot of clerical changes locally, with a new Bishop, and the merging of a bunch of Parishes together. Maybe that shakes out positively, or maybe it'll erase our efforts. Thank you for posting the testimonies of those people, God Bless!
This misses the frame being discussed here. I admire your hope. But it seems like the suggestion is to view the building of Church as a needed sacramental center, but that restoration will only happen, unannounced, on group chats, and in people's actual living rooms. Parish centers are a dead letter. I'm inclined to agree